{"id":198,"date":"2008-06-11T11:37:26","date_gmt":"2008-06-11T10:37:26","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/t-machine.org\/?p=198"},"modified":"2008-06-25T17:18:43","modified_gmt":"2008-06-25T16:18:43","slug":"dr-bartle-three-views-from-2018","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/new.t-machine.org\/index.php\/2008\/06\/11\/dr-bartle-three-views-from-2018\/","title":{"rendered":"Dr. Bartle: Three Views from 2018"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I just heard this talk at the MMOGfest academic mini-conference last week &#8211; apparently, it&#8217;s mostly the same as the talk he gave at the independent MMO conference earlier this year, but I think a lot of people didn&#8217;t manage to go to that one, so it seems worth reporting here.<\/p>\n<p>Like all the other <a href=\"http:\/\/t-machine.org\/index.php\/category\/conferences\/\">conference-talk writeups<\/a>, any errors and ommissions are my fault, and my personal comments appear in square brackets throughout.<\/p>\n<h4>Summary<\/h4>\n<p>As noted <a href=\"http:\/\/www.guardian.co.uk\/technology\/2008\/apr\/28\/games.censorship\">in his Guardian article, &#8220;We&#8217;ve won&#8221;<\/a>: games are here to stay. In the MMO space &#8211; despite all the threats and challenges &#8211; it looks like MMOs will continue to innovate and expand, and become better and better. A good, upbeat, keynote talk.<br \/>\n<!--more--><\/p>\n<h4>The future of MMOs &#8230; if you&#8217;ve just stepped out of a law conference<\/h4>\n<p>Applying the laws wrongly<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>games and non-games have different legal sets: you&#8217;re allowed to beat the living daylights out of someone in a boxing ring<\/li>\n<li>possible outcome: VWs get no special treatment<\/li>\n<li>current signs: SL EULA being struck down in court<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>[too many people try to extrapolate blindly from &#8220;real world&#8221; laws into vw\/online\/games (which have few or no laws of their own &#8230; yet). But I think we have to be careful not to mix that up with the specifics of things like the SL case, which *even with separate laws* probably would go against Linden. Laws generally reflect the prevailing culture (according to the lawyers), and in the prevailing culture Linden seemed to be acting unfairly]<\/p>\n<p>Money laundering<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>[insert description of normal money laundering here]<\/li>\n<li>[my only question is why govts haven&#8217;t gone AWOL about this > 5 years ago?]<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Income tax<\/p>\n<ul> &#8211; in-game assets are valuisable => legally, they come under the laws of income tax\n<\/ul>\n<p>Patents cost a pittance to file, but .. It costs the blood of 12 freshly-slain virgins to get a patent revoked [yes, he actually said this :)]<\/p>\n<h4>The future of MMOs &#8230; if you&#8217;ve just stepped out of a business OR education conference<\/h4>\n<p>This misfits: the MMO developers got left behind by the rest of the world<\/p>\n<p>Too much reality being applied into MMOs destroys the fantasy aspect<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>advertising real-world products in MMOs intrudes the real world into the virtual world, blurring the boundary of the alternate reality<\/li>\n<li>micro-payments allow real-world status (wealth) to shape virtual world status (economy; dominance of best character\/weapons\/etc) [that&#8217;s simply illogical: it&#8217;s the kind of thing that Economists present as infallible logical reasoning (Richard didn&#8217;t, I&#8217;m just saying that other people do) and yet it has nothing logical or inevitable about it &#8211; it&#8217;s simply a guess of an idea of a thing that might happen with a potential explanation for why that MIGHT happen which even so may not be the real underlying reason it did happen. i.e. it&#8217;s nothing more than a guess and a groundless theory until\/unless you add something &#8211; anything &#8211; that makes it more solid than that.]<\/li>\n<li>games were used by non-gamer educators as education tools, undermining the idea that a game should be &#8220;fun&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>educators want to use MMOs  to paper over the cracks in the existing education system [there is a third way here: there are games being made that are exceptional teaching tools. Strangely, very few people are talking about this &#8211; I suspect it&#8217;s because the smart money is already quietly investing in it]<\/li>\n<li>in each case, MMOs are never regarded as being worthwhile in their own right, they&#8217;re only being seen as tools to achieve various unrelated things<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>At one conference I went to last year, some corporates literally couldn&#8217;t see any distinction between Facebook and Second Life. [this clearly annoys\/depresses him &#8211; I&#8217;d be interested to know in what WAY they saw them as identical: were they just exceptionally ignorant and had no idea what either is actually like? or were they saying that, treated as a black box within wider processes \/ business models, the two are effectively indistinguishable? Or &#8230; those two templates, done appropriately, would be effectively indistinguishable [I think that part is often true]]<\/p>\n<h4>The future of MMOs &#8230; if you&#8217;ve just come out of a game-developers conference<\/h4>\n<p>The good, the Bad, and the Ugly: Clint Eastwood won because he had the best weapon<\/p>\n<p>MMOs are inevitable<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>in pure numbers terms, it&#8217;s no longer possible for govts and business to overcome \/ restrain \/ divert future MMO development: too many people already play the current variants, and any accidental poisoning of the concept, or attempt to shoehorn or co-opt for other uses, will simply get left behind and fade away into insignificance<\/li>\n<li>MMO devkits and low-cost art\/animation assets open up virtual world creation [there are several companies that could launch this now or in the near futurebut haven&#8217;t \/ aren&#8217;t, and IMHO really should]<\/li>\n<li>most people cannot do IRL the things they do in MMOs, so MMOs have no alternative, unlike people like Richard Garriott who can afford to go into space like their Dad.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>[shows a slide he put up at the very start, a photo of Blondie with lots of the Muppets]<\/p>\n<p>My opinion? I already told you, subtly: the name of Clint&#8217;s character in Good, Bad, Ugly was Blondie.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\nMMOs will win because all that&#8217;s standing in the way is a bunch of muppets\n<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<h4>Q: Why do you see Educators as being so negative?<\/h4>\n<p>Computer games in general are good at teaching two things: facts, and higher-order problem-solving skills<\/p>\n<p>All the education money goes on something somewhere in-between, which is neither one nor the other.<\/p>\n<p>Can you teach people to integrate using games? Well, sort of, but you can do that more effectively in other ways.<\/p>\n<p>[Ha! I disagree completely. But &#8230; it&#8217;s hard, really hard, because practically all the good game design has ignored teaching to date, so we have almost no examples and almost no learning \/ knowledge to start from :( ]<\/p>\n<p>Games abstract out details of things to improve gameplay, but that means they often teach incompletely, e.g. pirates games teach a lot about the economy of the carribean, but completely miss out the slave trade, despite that being an essential part of the economy, the history, etc.<\/p>\n<h4>Q: do you see a potential for developing a casual MMO?<\/h4>\n<p>Yes. Teenage boys are all playing Runescape, but the girls are largely unserviced as a market.<\/p>\n<p>Many parents can happily play an MMO internsively for 2-3 hour sessions, IFF they can be interrupted unexpectedly for 5-10 minutes at a time. e.g. because a child needs some help with something. MMOs currently don&#8217;t allow them to do this &#8211; if you drop out AFK for a few mins, the raid fails.<\/p>\n<p>Many retired people play poker and canasta online not because they like those games but because those are the only games that fit within their real-world requirements for commitment etc plus socialisation.<\/p>\n<h4>Q: do you play WoW?<\/h4>\n<p>I&#8217;m a designer, so I don&#8217;t get fun from playing them.<\/p>\n<p>I get to see some wonderful design things, but I don&#8217;t need to play intensively to do that.<\/p>\n<p>In the past, people used to interpret this as &#8220;you don&#8217;t REALLY know, do you? You just think you understand&#8221;. So, just for those people I got three characters up to level 70.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ll have to refresh my credentials when WotLK comes out, but I can say that nearly everything I learnt from WoW I learned by the time I reached level 10 &#8211; and the rest by level 20.<\/p>\n<p>[I asked him afterwards &#8220;what about raiding, high-end PvP, Battlegrounds, etc?&#8221;. He confirmed the above, and said that the details of PvP, raids, etc in WoW didn&#8217;t matter, that it was the broad design decisions which mattered, and those he already knew without needing to participate in them. Personally, I think it&#8217;s still critically important to understand the details, since so much of the success or failure of a game rests on the level of polish, and the polish is ONLY about these details]<\/p>\n<h4>Q: Are MMO&#8217;s evolving quickly enough, or just putting prettier front ends on the same old idea?<\/h4>\n<p>AoC is clearly a WoW clone. [and then he traced it back through EQ, DikuMUD etc, as per standard analysis]. It&#8217;s nicely done, but it looks soulless, no-one&#8217;s trying to say anything through that game. EVE has soul, UO had some soul, EQ tried to have soul but didn&#8217;t really have any.<\/p>\n<p>Are you trying to say freedom or constraint? EQ et al offer freedom with one hand but take it away with the other, resulting in an inability to say very much really.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ve never been [able to be] a player &#8211; I was a designer before MUD&#8217;s existed, because I co-wrote the first one, so I never got to enjoy that sense of delight and discovery of playing a game without looking at it as a designer.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I just heard this talk at the MMOGfest academic mini-conference last week &#8211; apparently, it&#8217;s mostly the same as the talk he gave at the independent MMO conference earlier this year, but I think a lot of people didn&#8217;t manage to go to that one, so it seems worth reporting here. Like all the other [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/new.t-machine.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/198"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/new.t-machine.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/new.t-machine.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/new.t-machine.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/new.t-machine.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=198"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/new.t-machine.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/198\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/new.t-machine.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=198"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/new.t-machine.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=198"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/new.t-machine.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=198"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}